Donator Perks

Author	Message
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/12 00:12:31 The main issue is spawned in items in player shops; Architects shouldn't be allowed to have player shops, they don't need it as they have creative, there is no telling whether an item is spawned in or not. Plus I highly doubt that many if any architects play survival after being able to use creative mode. If they do they can make money though voting, which is all anyone really needs considering that economy of the server these days. Removing their ability to make player shops would also remove the issue of them having the ability to make op farms in creative and selling the drops. This is a small compromise to ensure the legitimacy of the server and to ensure they cannot manipulate the economy to their own will using spawned in items. If this is passed and people agree I also think that if they are caught giving out items then they would be at risk of losing their rank and privileges. This should be a constantly enforced thing rather than what it is now, because giving people the ability to go gamemode 1 is a risky business they need strict rules. Furthermore, /kick shouldn't be a thing for anyone who isn't staff it's only been excessively used from what I've seen, and in some cases used inappropriately and abused. PS: The main reason for complaining about spawned in items in shops was mostly because I have reason to believe that Asriel has been spawning in items such as Elytra and Totems of undying then selling them in his shop; I was told that he sold his legit Elytra stash when he initially got architect which peaked my interest as I bought the Elytra that he just restocked the other day (7 pairs). He hasn't been punished (really) for his illegally spawned in and sold items (he also has a minimap that shows players on it not sure if that's against the rules) and need to be brought to justice! P.P.S: that's not a personal attack just evidence.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/04/12 00:49:34 +wuan
Daprotector	Date sent: 2017/04/12 01:04:47 This is a problem that can happen without anyone, even the mods, not knowing. You can't truly exploit architects unless you have the information and data to support your argument. +1
ExplosivePotato_	Date sent: 2017/04/12 01:17:00 +1
loki570023	Date sent: 2017/04/12 03:38:50 When I got architect, I continued to play in survival some. Still do. But having creative removes the need to farm for hours of grinding for materials. I have literally never bought ANYTHING from the shops, nor have I ever needed to sell anything for money. Not once. Its almost certain that most of the architect shops use at least some spawned items. It is completely unnecessary to have a shop as an architect. Mega +1
Techy	Date sent: 2017/04/12 08:21:47 I would say +1, but player shops are also ways to give back to the community.
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/12 10:35:44 goose, those elytra were in my shop long before i got architect
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/12 10:36:24 also, my player-seeing function was removed looong ago
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/12 10:36:45 and you just seem like another player who's salty about a new rank
Shindori	Date sent: 2017/04/12 16:35:12 Asriel, I really doubt goose is 'another player who's salty about a new rank'. If you have just a little bit of common sense, you can see that people with gmc don't need any money at all because you already have unlimited resources, so them having a shop is completely unnecessary. If you still want some money for fuck knows which reason, just go vote as Goose said before. I also love how you call goose salty because he actually comes with reasonable arguements against something which benefits you. Also, +1.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/12 18:13:45 Another incident where an Architect is blindly protecting his perks without even reading and seeing how valid these points are. +1 obviously
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/12 19:52:09 Glad to see people agreeing with it, and thanks for calling that out Shindori :)
ACeTheGreat98	Date sent: 2017/04/12 20:14:02 +1 What shin said.
Shindori	Date sent: 2017/04/12 20:59:45 I also fear that if you don't enforce this correctly now and the amount of architects keeps growing, you will end up in the same situation when donators still had gmc, where you had to remove gmc from people because too many people abused it. In those pictures I took from galby's architect complaint you can see spawners built by an architect for others and also random mobs getting spawned by another architect. Just like selling gmc items in shops those are forms of petty abuse, which aren't that much of a problem in the beginning. If you eventually get the same amount of architects as there where donators however, you will have a problem because the petty abuse will become widespread.
Aouldrain	Date sent: 2017/04/12 21:47:39 +1 Down with the defilers! (Not including Larsy because he deserves the rank.)
Zedcall	Date sent: 2017/04/12 22:16:09 +1
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/12 23:17:22 A loop is going to be created here, already about 12 Architects with 2 known abusers now. Imagine this; a dam and water, dam representing the stability and well being of the server while water representing gmc and Architects. When there were 3 Archtects, only some water, easily controllable, however 12 Architects, much more water. Water keeps increasing but dam never reinforced. Gmc abuse here, a crack, another crack there, cracks keep coming and dam never fixed, eventually water will pass and dam is unfixable. Staff would be left with one ultimatum, either keep gmc and server keeps getting flooded, or remove gmc and the tidal waves of drama begin. A loop: >Rank with gmc >People buy >Too much people with rank >Ranks starts getting easily abused >Gmc is removed
CCShad Moderator	Date sent: 2017/04/12 23:29:13 +1 I feel like this would solve a lot of issues.
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/13 01:27:59 Special thanks to Ace for helping me with this forum post, we talked about this for like an hour to come up with solutions with small compromise.
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/13 11:13:33 i have well over $80k on the server, and the only reason i even own a shop is so players can buy things they need without having to do it themselves (if they need a mass supply of something), and without me giving it to them for free, because that would be cheating. i'm gonna be keeping my money because i like to show it off (probably the worst thing i could have said there)
belgnbor	Date sent: 2017/04/13 11:25:20 See this is the point it gets hard to tell as we can't overly prove where the architects get their items from. As for Asrial and the elytras, its sketchy, he had 5 in his shop when he first got architect, which I bought as it appeared he was dumping the stuff he no longer needed. There were no other elytra on sale before this. Then a few days later he had 7 Elytra at a massive price increase and totems of undying. He even stated in a forum post that he was "allowed" to sell gmc items and that he was selling gmc items in his shop. Thats when a staff member removed totems of undying but left the elytras. Also many questions of Toxic's shop and certain items which were hard to acquire he suddenly had massive amounts of. Sadly some good architects are suffering a bad stigma due to a few questionable ones. As for Kick, I use it sparingly and would like to keep that command. I kick mainly for racist language and the person won't stop after being asked. Or sometimes we are trying to get rid of a hacker/killing spree person whilst staff are not on. Kick is abused by some players including staff at times. Other times it is done amongst friends having fun again including staff. The only problem is some do abuse and people have been kicked for no good reason, this is dangerous as they could be flying or near lava which could result in their death and loss of items. I use it basically against defaults and the occasional citizen. Racist language is my major trigger. Its sad that a few children on here have not been taught respect and proper manners from their parents.
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/13 12:54:51 It's cheating giving other players GMC items whether it's sold through your shop or not, and in the post I never mentioned the removal of Architects money lol.
LazarkGaming	Date sent: 2017/04/13 14:13:15 @Shindori's screenshot... I can say that I won't be inviting Galbby to any future fun, as he obviously doesn't understand fun. I do that, at least exclusively to architects, if I spawn anything in, I make sure to collect items when said party is over, you can speak to people in my faction, and others who know that I'm very strict when collecting spawned in items/mob drops. I think we should be allowed to have our fun if we're sensible. I didn't create spawners for someone to profit off, I did it for fun with the intention of deleting it later, which I did. Also I'm against this post, -1, you're removing freedom from the good people. You find solid evidence, not just words, but solid evidence against Asriel or anyone else, just complain and they'll lose their privileges, but this rule affects all of us Architects. I won't lie, I know of a number of Architects who do hand out freebies, but basic survival blocks and gear, nothing rare or hard to get. I've been told that giving out easy to get stuff is ok for Architects, but it does allow those players to sell those items on. So I can understand how Asriel may have been caught out by a staff error. All these complaints/suggestions all stem off the lack of rules or depth of current existing ones. We need to remove grey areas in rules, and make it black and white. The less you can interpret, the easier it'll be for everyone. Here's a question to all donators (with /fly), shouldn't selling elytras or any end item also be removed from donators with fly... Surely most of us wouldn't have all those shulker boxes or elytras if we didn't have fly? So Goose, if you're going to remove the ability to sell items for Architects, why don't you remove selling items to people who can fly?
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/13 16:24:11 Lazark people who have /fly don't have access to gmc, that's a completely useless argument because it's irrelevant, they are not remotely close to being the same thing. I'm trying to remove the spawned in items (and possibilities of them) from the economy with this post. You saying that players who have gone out to search for elytra legitimately through the end and selling them is at all close to going into your infinite inventory and spawning in as many pairs as you like versus a limited supply?
Shindori	Date sent: 2017/04/13 16:35:31 Lazark, you were not there when donators had gmc so I understand that you do not get my point. I believe however it was that 'fun' stuff which eventually lead to all the widespread abuse and the removal of gmc from donators because it was very hard to control eventually. The donator rules 4 and 8 don't say 'do not spawn in excessive amounts of mobs' and 'do not use your abilities to benefit others' for nothing. It is dissapointing it doesn't get enforced however. Also, me using fly to get elytras actually got enforced, my fly got removed. They said it ruined the survival experience and I agree with their decision to remove it, but I think it's hypocritical to now allow gmc stuff being sold in shops when I can't do that if I use /fly. Doesn't selling gmc items ruin your 'beloved' survival experience too? As goose said with the elytra example, you can spawn in an infinite amount of elytras versus a limited supply, so people using fly is nothing compared to you spawning it from your inventory.
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/13 16:41:22 I do agree with the rules needing to be more strict, clear and enforced however, rather than all the grey areas. Which is one of the things i'm trying to point out with this post because staff know about the items being sold illegally and who does it but they aren't doing anything to stop it; it seems, but ACe did co-op with me on this post, special thanks to him for taking the time to help me make sure everything I said in here was true.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/04/13 22:01:22 Lazark, I saw SirPrivate, a citizen, using that spawner. And as for the spawned mobs, people were complaining about it, if you're gonna bitch at me for this, then screw off. Your magma cubes resulted in the death and accidental smiting of someone's gear
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/14 04:08:11 "from. As for Asrial and the elytras, its sketchy, he had 5 in his shop when he first got architect, which I bought as it appeared he was dumping the stuff he no longer needed." - belgnbor first off, Asriel* second, those elytra were in my shop long before i even got Architect, and you can ask Nickle if you don't believe me. it's not my fault you guys decided to buy them all.
belgnbor	Date sent: 2017/04/14 07:50:49 Can not agree with you asriel I took a screen shot on 2nd April when I bought the 5 Elytra (where the blank sign is), 2 days later another screenshot showing 8 new elytra in its place. http://imgur.com/a/u8xNT As for Lazark I do believe you are one of the honest ones and personally see no harm in a fun room as long as others come empty and leave empty, problem is not all enforce this. I know some architects are careful what they do and abide by the rules. But as for handing out small cheap items, I still feel this is against rules. Others either should source it for themselves or buy from shops. By giving out general building stuff etc. takes away from others who are trying to sell the same stuff. There are many player shops who have suffered since architect has come along by trying to compete against illegal or questionable spawned in items.
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2017/04/14 07:57:41 Staff should already be dealing with illegitimate architect shops. The way to know if someone is selling spawned in items is if the price is too low.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/14 10:20:53 Nah luigi, if I have Architect, I will get diamonds from gmc but still sell them for about 30, people will buy, I won't mine, no one will know. Another thing I can do is when it is out of stock, I keep it like that for a couple hours so it seems as though I am really mining for it.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/14 10:23:46 Luigi, I admire your persistence and your faith in staff. However Toxic and Asriel have never been told for selling gmc items and making illegitimate spawners.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/14 10:25:45 If someone abuses gmc once, just once, staff should take it away immediately with little to no chance of them getting it back. Yes, the first 3 abusive Architects will cry and go butthurt for losing gmc, but the rest won't, because they will learn. Even a rat would learn like this.
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2017/04/14 13:44:56 Obviously diamonds being sold for 30 by an architect are spawned in, especially if there are lots in the shop.
Zedcall	Date sent: 2017/04/14 13:47:02 The average legit diamond goes for like 4-5 per...
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/14 13:53:01 Who said I'd put a lot luigi? And 30 is an example, I haven't went to a shop in ages so I don't know prices. Say I sell 10 diamonds for 50 each. How will you know? If a normal player has a fortune III pic he can easily get 3 or more diamonds from 1 ore.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/04/14 15:15:32 Luigi, diamonds at 30$ is a terrible deal, most diamonds go for 2-3$ per
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/14 15:25:57 That's a topic for a different thread lol
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2017/04/14 16:25:18 In theory, selling any spawned items isn't allowed, but like you demonstrated it's impossible to know for sure if an item is spawned in, so we need a concrete way to figure it out in practice. What causes spawned in items to break the economy and be bad for the server is if they are given out. If you only sell 10 spawned in diamonds, it's negligible relative to people who majorly abuse and sell stacks of diamonds. Furthermore, architects selling items for too low of a price means they can give out those items more quickly. It's based on both price and quantity. Since architects can spawn in items, for the purpose of the rule we can assume that items being sold are spawned in to the degree to which the price is low and quantity being sold. You can also think of it in terms of the probability of the items being spawned in. If there are lots of items at a lower price, it's less likely they were obtained legitimately because of the high amount of effort required to obtain them not reflected in the price; that player doesn't value the effort they put in to obtain the items, so they probably didn't put in much effort (spawned them in). Coincidentally, this also has more of an impact on the server so action should be taken. Similarly, if there are fewer items at a higher price, it has less of an impact on the server, and the items are also less likely to be spawned in.
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/14 17:10:21 I don't think it should be allowed either way, and not allowing them to have player shops removes both of those possibilities and while removing the economy issues that spawned in items could cause. Leaving only the issue where they could just drop items to players for free or be paid with /pay, but that's not really a known issue yet if it does occur.
Zedcall	Date sent: 2017/04/14 17:17:51 Ok 2 things to clarify for all: 1. Architects are not allowed to sell gmc items at all in their shops, this will be punished. 2. Architects need to have their shop prices higher than people without architect.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/14 18:13:01 Lol Zed, thing is, no abusive Architect has ever been punished and no Architect has an expensive shop. And luigi, an example; 30 diamonds for 30 each, and 300 diamonds for 3 each, if acquired from gmc, still illegal, 1 for 30 or 1 for 3, illegal.
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/16 02:02:02 So what's the plan for this?
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/04/16 03:07:33 Do you see what introducing architect has done for the server? How much longer can it take before people release that this is something that we have to deal with, and immediately?
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/16 08:16:20 i wouldn't wanna lose my shop rights, because i've been running my shop for nearly a year now, and wouldn't want to have to end it. all of the things are legit obtained, and it would be unfair to not be able to sell my shit.
CaptainSpaceSheep	Date sent: 2017/04/17 00:14:09 I've removed atleast 40 of toxics spawners and to be honest I want her to be banned or her rank removed.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/17 09:42:01 And so, it begins. minerand1 lost his gmc and tp. toxic will probably soon lose gmc too if not banned. As I said, first 3 abusive Architects will cry, but the rest won't abuse as they know they will have their gmc or rank removed.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/04/17 16:42:45 Yurp
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/17 17:56:48 i don't abuse because what's the point of abusing?
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/18 12:53:30 That's you Asriel, others do abuse tho
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/19 05:50:58 but what i'm saying is people are saying "remove architect" "they abuse" "get rid of creative" "unfair" just because a few people don't like the fact that there is a new donator rank, and a few assholes thought it would be funny to abuse it (and they were punished accordingly)
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/04/19 05:51:27 and now everyone should suffer the punishments?
Shindori	Date sent: 2017/04/19 05:53:55 I don't see anyone saying 'remove gmc for everyone' at all on this thread, only for those who abuse it.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/04/19 13:21:57 Asriel. You said galbby was turning everything Architects do as very severe so they're punished, when you're turning everything we say as very severe so people feel bad for Architects and leave them get away with abuse.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/04/19 22:25:31 I have already discovered a crapton of illegitemate spawners and stuff, fortunately staff acted on most of them(although still a bit late). however there are still spawners (two of them, found in the architect complaint by me) which have not been acted upon. And also, as long as the architects dont speak up about their spawners and the people who take the drops from those spawners don't speak up, there is literally nothing you can do to prevent inflation of whatever the fuck comes out of those spawners. I am not "salty about a new rank" I am simply pointing out the immense problems and consequences of having such an abusable and easily exploitable rank at the expense of anyone who says "I GOT MY MOMS CREDIT CARD IMA GET ARCHITECT HOI HOI". But this is all besides the point of the thread. If you do anything, at least restrict the architects' shops
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/04/20 04:44:28 Oh and lazark I cannot believe how utterly stupid you are. Can you read? Do you not know what is happening? Someone got their damn stuff smited because we were trying to mass-smite the mobs that you so stupidly spawned in.There were arguments, complaints, and all of that good stuff afterwards, and all because of your irresponsibility. In all honesty I'm surprised you're still there with your gmc after that one. And even worse, you try to turn all that shit against me...
Goose	Date sent: 2017/04/23 18:09:55 gg
anglina123	Date sent: 2017/04/24 06:27:16 this thread is lit

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