You should be ashamed of yourselves

Author	Message
wones9	Date sent: 2018/06/26 02:13:52 I can't seem to understand why nobody has the balls to just straight up come out and acknowledge that a huge part of the reason why the server is still at such rock-bottom player logins is because of Luigi. If half the suggestions were accepted, the player base would instantly triple. He denies every single suggestion and there are a hell of a lot of great ones. Come on, we've all seen those suggestions where EVERYONE +1's it and Luigi crashes the party and declines it because he personally doesn't feel it's right. His judgement is nonsensical. He is the reason that the server has made NO progress whatsoever. He is also the reason CHIP is still staff. Even fucking Loki agrees chip needs to get out. I'm not saying he is the reason the server died out in the first place, but he is certainly the reason it hasn't been reinvigorated. I get that some of you have gently acknowledged that he takes credit for the servers lack of advance, but none of you snowflakes have ever full on said anything about it.
Presinus	Date sent: 2018/06/26 02:44:41 Idk what you mean, I and several others bring it up all the time.
wones9	Date sent: 2018/06/26 03:57:16 It needs to be made into posts
Presinus	Date sent: 2018/06/26 04:06:08 http://webbcraft.co.uk/forum/read_topic.php?id=8302 http://webbcraft.co.uk/forum/read_topic.php?id=8143
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2018/06/26 04:44:31 I haven't been the owner for the past 7 months while the server has declined. Part of the reason why I gave ownership to loki was so that he could take on these kinds of responsibilities, since my time was occupied with other things. However it seems like much of the burden is still falling onto my shoulders and while I'd like to help the server as much as possible I have to be realistic in responding to suggestions with the sorts of things that are actually going to be feasible and beneficial. I'm not going to spend huge amounts of time on implementing something that's going to have a negligible benefit. There's already a load of suggestions that I would love to add but they're stuck in a backlog of things I have to do.
wones9	Date sent: 2018/06/26 12:43:56 @Luigi What you deem beneficial is completely counter to what the entire player base deems beneficial. You should clearly get a clue when an entire post is +1'd. Your issue is that you don't like the concept of majority rule. For example, name changes: everyone on the server wants your idiotic system of name changes gone, but you say that it confuses identity or some bullshit like that. If there were name changes, the server count would increase. I have seen MULTIPLE times people join for the first time and say "oh... this server doesn't allow name changes?" and leave. Your idea of what is feasible is clearly flawed, and that is proven by the lack of players right now. Also, I see you continue to ignore the ongoing hatred toward chip bruh. Again, more proof of your nonsensical judgment. EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE wants him gone except you. Everyone disagrees with you and yet you don't seem to give one fucking shit. Don't talk to me about feasibility and being beneficial when your power of the server has left the server with less than 10 people logging on per day. @Presinus I am not sure what your objective in posting those were, because you perfectly proved my point. You literally were complaining about the suggestions forum and then barely mentioned luigi. You didn't full on blame luigi, you just said his name one time and that was it, even though he was 100% responsible for the suggestions not getting accepted. I understand you blaming him, but you kind of just pointed out it had something to do with luigi and continued on with your paragraph.You didn't actually dedicate an entire post about everything he has done. Refer to this quote: "I get that some of you have gently acknowledged that he takes credit for the servers lack of advance, but none of you snowflakes have ever full on said anything about it."
Tye	Date sent: 2018/06/26 14:19:28 @Luigi: You may not have the owner prefix, but you still have complete control over the forums, plugins, console, etc. If Loki paid to be owner, then why does he have equal, or even less perms than Chip?
thomasjones	Date sent: 2018/06/26 22:07:11 As much as I dislike luigi for his dodgy tactics, the real issue is the active leadership of the server, The staff is a mess, well we dont really have staff. Think its like 2 members who actually come on
wones9	Date sent: 2018/06/26 23:42:18 Completely disagree Tom, Luigi is the primary issue. If he was gone, leadership would change dramatically.
Aouldrain	Date sent: 2018/06/27 03:48:13 I wholeheartedly agree with all things said here by Wones. plus bumb
alpacafarm	Date sent: 2018/06/27 06:40:58 I think it does say something that the server has dramatically declined while loki has been owner. You guys are acting like the reason why the server is dead is because chip still has console lmao. Loki has been just as underwhelming as everyone hoped he wouldnt be. Most of the time I see that Luigi and Loki agree with each other on suggestions, so Luigi isnt only to blame here.
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2018/06/27 07:22:56 @Tye excuse me? Loki has way more power than chip, he has file access and chip doesn't, which is a big deal. Loki chooses staff, he manages the whole server and makes final decisions on things, except regarding donations and the website. How can you say chip has more power when he has been inactive for 4 months and literally does nothing?? @Wones Even if I wanted to implement some big suggestions it would have to go through loki. However the reality with username changes is that it is part of what makes the server unique. The only reason the server is still alive is because of its rich history which makes players who played 3 or 4 years ago continue to come back. If we got rid of all that, updated the plugins to support username changes, requiring all the old data to be scrapped, this would just become another cookie-cutter survival server. Sure it might please some people in the short term but just like with other suggestions that didn't really add anything players needed/wanted, it will become forgotten about, like survival games or ucars. Except the long-term damage will be permanent. There's no point in trying to use the username changes thing as a scapegoat for why the server is declining. The new rules don't even have that rule anymore. Since the beginning of last year, the server automatically reverts new usernames back to the old one so players don't lose access to their chests, homes, balance and faction. The decline accelerated after you were banned so you can't claim that any players you saw turned off by the rule were a major contributing factor to it. If there was ever a time the username change rule would have contributed to a decline in players, it would have been in 2015 when it was introduced and in 2016 to a lesser extent, from players not being able to access their stuff if they changed their name. From the graph there was such a decline in February 2015 right after username changes were introduced, but I'd need to gather more data to see if username changes had an effect by comparing the amount of players who changed their username to the amount of the decline. Anyway that's not the decline we're talking about.
Creeper1538 (BANG)	Date sent: 2018/06/27 11:07:40 I had no idea things had gotten this bad since i had left. I hope things get a bit better before August.
Tye	Date sent: 2018/06/27 19:25:16 "How can you say chip has more power when he has been inactive for 4 months and literally does nothing??" then demote him
galbby5	Date sent: 2018/06/27 22:51:28 Loki has way more power than chip, he has file access and chip doesn't, which is a big deal. Loki chooses staff, he manages the whole server and makes final decisions on things, except regarding donations and the website. How can you say chip has more power when he has been inactive for 4 months and literally does nothing?? If Loki has more power than chip, then why isn't chip demoted? If loki chooses staff, why isn't chip demoted? I can say that chip has more power precisely because he's been inactive for 4 months and literally hasn't done anything, and SOMEHOW IS STILL ALLOWED CONSOLE that's all im saying.
wones9	Date sent: 2018/06/28 02:36:15 You just wrote two paragraphs talking about username changes. That was just an example and it is trivial to the actual issues at hand. Are you actually trying to avoid talking about the actual problems? You completely ignored the entire chip issue I brought to attention. Clearly, you are doing this on purpose because you know this isn't about the well-being of the server but rather your friendship with chip. Come on, let's discuss why chip is still in power
Michael9999995	Date sent: 2018/06/28 03:46:14 To be honest, this is just like when lizard rag was co owner still after about a year of inactivity. Luigi doesn't like to kick his best friends out of their positions, which I understand. But at the same time, you should take a step back and think to yourself. "Is it worth it to keep chip in the staff team?" I don't think it is. He does not contribute anything at all and he is inactive beyond belief, we could fill his spot with a person that actually deserves the position and actually cares enough about the server to be active once in a while. Idk, that's just my thoughts on the matter. Please note too, I mean no disrespect to you luigi, I just think you need to think about it some more. That's all.
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2018/06/28 09:33:27 This is ridiculous. If you guys are going to act like the reason the server has declined is because of chip not being demoted, then I have nothing more to say because that is just a downright stupid argument. Come on, where's the logic in that? Inactive staff do not interact with players at all and have no influence over the server's operation. If the server is understaffed then that's a different issue because there are plenty of slots for new moderators and admins to be promoted without even needing to think about demotions. @galbby You even said so yourself that new players on the server don't even know who Chip is. When I talk about 'power' I mean the influence that person has over the server's operation, not your misconstrued idea of how long someone can be inactive before being demoted. Chip is inactive so has no influence over the server's operation, therefore no real power. I still manage donations and since chip donated for console access and his rank, it is my responsibility to manage those things. The same applies to why Loki can't just demote all the donators, because I still manage donations and it's my responsibility to ensure the donators retain their rank. @Michael we don't need to fill his spot because it's not necessary to have anyone in that position. What he is contributing to the staff team now is not an indicator of what he has contributed in the past or what he might contribute in the future.
ckvoss	Date sent: 2018/06/28 14:02:58 funny when most of the people who complain about the server are banned ones its not the server that declined, it's minecraft.. idk why that cant get through to you
Presinus	Date sent: 2018/06/28 14:27:56 So based on what Luigi says, an old Volkswagen Beetle that drives everyday is more powerful than a brand-new Bugatti Chiron that has never been driven. To what Ck said, 1 - The server is declining faster than Minecraft as a whole is. 2 - Banned players are just players who got too sick of the server to follow the rules.
Michael9999995	Date sent: 2018/06/29 04:47:51 @Luigi I understand that chip has done a lot of good for the server, but he clearly doesn't care anymore and I just think that it's someone else's turn. @ckvoss Minecraft isn't declining nearly as fast as Webb has declined. The server is esentially collapsed at this point.
Gilgamesh8	Date sent: 2018/06/29 06:25:42 My thoughts on the current decline: What made Webbcraft special is also it's downfall, namely, faithful players. We have an aging player base. All the old players are growing up and changing interests, and new players aren't coming in fast enough to replace them. As far as I know, it's not that they aren't playing on the server, its that they aren't playing Minecraft. Back when I joined at the start of 2015 was apparently the high point on the server. Back then, we had a ton of different people, some good, some less good. Donators had creative for probably half the current price, and I imagine most abused it. The shop bought and sold infinitely, so money was essentially worthless. There was drama, like you would expect in a small town - and that's really how it seemed. Wave to the neighbors, yell at your rival across the street, work with your friends. It all relied on that core of dedicated players, almost all of whom now have moved on to other things, but who still check in sometimes because they like to see their friends. I never though I'd say this, but maybe even the rulebreakers had their place here.
Karbs	Date sent: 2018/06/29 22:31:57 i dont want friends i want audiis
Aouldrain	Date sent: 2018/06/30 19:13:51 @Gilg Exactly, we should unban everybody.
wones9	Date sent: 2018/06/30 21:04:19 "I still manage donations and since chip donated for console access and his rank, it is my responsibility to manage those things." If you donate, you are impermeable to the consequences of your actions? So because chip donated (which I have no fucking idea how that is even allowed), he keeps his staff rank no matter what he does? Isn't he subject to lose the perks of his donation? Doesn't being inactive warrant the loss of his access to the console and any influence he may or may have in the future? I know for sure with players who have donated, if any rules are broken, your rank is invalidated; I myself have experienced this. Given that donators are subject to the loss of their rank based on their actions, and if chip donated to become staff, why is his rank not revoked due to his inactivity? Please explain in detail, because otherwise, it is safe to assume you are keeping him where he is due to your relations with him.
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2018/07/01 08:23:20 +1 to what Gilg said. @Wones being inactive is not against the rules.
Pheonix2000ad	Date sent: 2018/07/01 14:11:45 Luigi, seen as you seem to be the only staff member who understands this idea and you are technically the owner, can you just take control and do this please. Im sure the sensitive staff team are enjoying their time of power and politeness but it wont last unless someone actually fucking does something
Tye	Date sent: 2018/07/01 15:48:48 if this is how mush works, how much is it for head admin with op because i will fix this server lmao
Michael9999995	Date sent: 2018/07/02 02:43:10 Haven't previous staff members been kicked out of the staff team for inactivity in the past? How is this any different?
galbby5	Date sent: 2018/07/02 03:34:30 @Luigi nobody is claiming that the reason for the decline in playerbase is due to chip being inactive. We're simply pointing out that chip should not be staff, whether or not it affects the playerbase. If Osama Bin Laden became the president of the united states, and the US didn't get harmed because Osama bin laden did nothing but sleep and get drunk, does that mean that Osama bin laden is a good president? Of course not. Demote chip. Loki is clearly not the true owner of this server.
wones9	Date sent: 2018/07/02 21:10:31 These are the issues that occur when you mix donations with staff ranks. Luigi isn't comprehending what we are saying; Because he is inactive, he should lose his staff rank just like any other staff member, but because he donated, luigi is giving him a different set of rules. It doesn't matter that he donated, he has been inactive and should lose his rank like anyone else who is inactive with a staff rank. How is this fair to other staff?
Pheonix2000ad	Date sent: 2018/07/02 21:41:27 Luigi has taken the point of the players quite literally and I think its more what chips lack of a demotion actually shows. I agree with Luigi in the sense that Chip being demoted is not a problem, having his role changed freed up would not affect the performance of the server due to there being other open roles. *I will refer to any particular staff member as one unit of "staff" there are no blaming particular members if you are such a good "team"* The problem is the fact that a staff member can refuse to log onto the server for over 3 months and get away with it. The staff are more than happy to watch the server slowly decline so long as we keep up our expectations and not be toxic. If we have so many rules and orders to follow why cant any staff actually make some effort in return to improve the server. (shoutout to james and shad for atleast attempting to make things with their limited resources) many of the staff team don't even make near the activity rankings yet still are apparently responsible for the servers upkeeping. The easiest way I can express all my views in a paragraph is the following: The server has always lacked gameplay and plugins features compared to competition. Every server needs something unique to fight for a consistent player base. We had a very grown up community who experienced more than just the vanilla game and enjoyed mixing with personalities and the occasional fun drama. Yes I will concede that this came at the displeasure of some of the younger players but collateral damage I guess. Most of us had outgrown the core game but the fact that there was something in common with a lot of like minded gamers kept us logging on. The staff have constantly underperformed due to lack of resources and sometimes poor decisions. No one ever had a problem with this though as they were just part of the community like the players. Whether people will admit this or not: the community was the main and virtually only feature of the server, the staff were there to ensure its upkeep and slight control. By deciding to ban these 'toxic' yet fun players (under conventional rules even though our server was not a conventional one) you decided to take on the task of keeping the server fun and entertaining in the absence of these big community players who used to keep it lively. You have 100% failed to do this due to lack of listening to suggestions and staff not doing their jobs, this is why all the complaints are firing out even when these problems have been present for ages. I appreciate that your plugins may not suffice to be able to take this workload on but this is what you chose. You decided to move the sense of community equality away from the server by establishing a hierarchy of staff controlling players more closely. Im not saying anything the staff has done is completely wrong and I think under most servers all of our bans are fair but we wernt like most servers but you still tried to force these generic friendly guidelines onto us for 12 year olds even though we were all older. This is what annoys me that whenever people try to point this out we just get shot down for being negative and toxic. A mass unban and an admittance that you cocked this up a little is the last option you have to try stop this decline. Don't tell me about server activity because player numbers is not that same as an enjoyable community. I would rather play with 10 people all speaking in chat than 30 where only 12-13 do. This is why Luigi's server worked as he was so lazy (sorry) that the server rans its self and people found the lack of censorship unique and fun I regret a lot of my actions and criticisms of the server but they have all been in an attempt to support it as I really want this place to stay what it once was. Most of the people ive met online who I have actually managed to make good friends with (and even lucky enough to meet) was solely to the credit of what Mush managed to create which is why so many of the old players are hanging on in hope of a return.
belgnbor	Date sent: 2018/07/03 02:50:07 Gilgamesh hit the nail on the head, everyone is growing up and moving on to other interests or different styles of minecraft. Who gives a crap whether chip is in or out, he does not take up an admin or mod space so why does it really matter if he is still there in name as a co-owner. I do agree that maybe some plugins could be added to make it more fun but will suggest those in the suggestion area later on. Servers ebb and flow. The area I think needs most attention is getting us back up in the voting page areas so more people notice the site.

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